Refuses 'Bottle'

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  • #813054
    Emily NP
    Participant

    Hi, everyone.

    Since signing up, I’ve managed to find answers to any question I might have through searches, and similar past posts. For the past week I’ve had no need for advice, as my kitten and I fell into a comfortable rhythm.

    But now, we’ve lost that stride. So, I’m asking: What is the earliest possible time for weaning?

    At 18 days, my kitten has a new habit of refusing the “bottle” (a syringe – I know it’s not the best option for hand-rearing, but she never took to a bottle, and was always comfortable with the syringe–she sucks from it herself, so there’s no danger of the plunger sticking, and I keep her from sucking too fast}. She will now knead FURIOUSLY, to the point where her swinging arms are shooing the syringe away, presses her lips shut and refuses to suck. The kneading isn’t entirely out of character–I used to deal with this by wrapping her up, and while it bothered her, once she was sucking on her food, she went still and content, gently kneading within the wrap. Now, she doesn’t settle and the wrap only frustrates her further.

    Whenever I do manage to get the syringe into her mouth she won’t suck as she normally does, and if I try to prompt her with the plunger she lets the formula spill back out her mouth. Then she will begin searching the blanket for food, still meowing.

    This doesn’t happen all the time–so far she’s done it in a middle of the night meal (I assumed her fussy attitude was because she wasn’t hungry; She seems to prefer stretching 6-7 hours without a meal overnight, sleeping through my prodding to wake her at the 4-5 hour mark which is our schedule during daylight hours). After getting about 3 ml in her, I gave up, letting her sleep and she happily finished the meal when morning came (without the fuss). I also switched out the old syringe here for one that is newer, with a smoother glide–easier for her to suck. (She gets frustrated when she has to put too much effort into suckling the food out).

    Then it happened again several feedings later at her last meal before bed at 10PM when she had woken voluntarily for a feeding. The only reasoning I can think for this one is that she had to eliminate. I stopped the meal to see if that’s what she wanted, stimulating her to go, and afterwards we were able to continue the feeding with less of a fight/fuss.

    Now it just happened again at another middle of the night feeding, however she did seem inclined to eat, just not from the syringe. I was using the newer, smoother syringe for easy suckling, I had stimulated her, I tried with the wrap and without. I would say it is because it is another middle-of-the-night feeding, except she did seem inclined to eat…

    She’s been incredibly advanced with most things, purring fully at 3 days old, sitting up and standing before a week was up and full-on walking soon after. Same with responding to sounds, grooming, etc… Is it possible that she’s ready to begin weaning at 19 Days? This seems too early for me, but I don’t know what else could be making her so resistant to feedings otherwise.

    Sorry for the length, and thanks in advance for any insight/tips/advice

    #813055
    jcat
    Participant

    It does seem a little early to me — I wouldn’t tend to start offering food mixed in with her milk until three and a half weeks to four weeks — but maybe she is getting frustrated with the syringe and wants more. Might be the time to try her with a bottle again (when she starts biting the nipple, you will know she has teeth and can start offering her a little wet food mixed into her formula). But keep checking back as others may have more experience with early weaners than me. Are you sure your original estimate of her age was correct?

    #813062
    Rachelfosters
    Participant

    I agree with jcat on trying the bottle again. Using a syringe is good to tell how much kitten is eating but it misses the soft nipple that the kittens enjoy. One possible reason for the refusal is that possibly the kitten is starting to get teeth. I have found that with the babies I foster, letting them chew on the nipple a little bit helps with the pain. It is hard to eat if she is in pain. I would test this out by having her chew on your finger so you can see if this would be the case. I once had a kitten that started having teeth break through the gum at 1 week, before her eyes were even open. It was a big surprise, but once I knew what was happening, I was able to help her through it and feedings became less of a hassle. the kittens i Am fostering right now are 21 days today.

    #813065
    Emily NP
    Participant

    Thanks! I was wondering if something like that might be the case (teeth maybe coming in). I’ve wanted to get her on a bottle from the beginning but she was so resistant (she gets really frustrated really quickly if things aren’t going her way). I’ll definitely give it another go.

    As far as her age, it’s not an estimate–A coworker of my friend had an accidental litter (don’t even get me started) and the mama was too young (not yet a year herself). She was unmaternal and rejected my little girl a few hours after birth; I’ve had her since Day 1. Since then, last I heard, 2 of the remaining 4 babies have died. If I’d known earlier, I might have insisted on taking the whole litter 😥

    Thanks again. Weaning seems waaay early to me, and at 4AM I was feeling at a bit of a loss. I’ll let you guys know how the bottle goes.

    ps. Congrats Rachelfosters on your Day 21 kittens! 😀 So glad they had someone like you around.

    #813066
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    I wouldn’t try actually weaning her yet, but I would put a little wet food in the bottle. Shake it up, and I always cut the end of the nipple off so they can suck it out easily. My kittens would get frustrated if they couldn’t get the food out fast enough and almost frantic acting because they are so hungry. You can control the amount of liquid that comes out by tipping the bottle back or up whichever the case may be. Just make sure she doesn’t aspirate milk into her lungs, this causes other problems. She is letting you know *her* schedule, when she wakes if she is hungry. I’ve noticed how it can change suddenly with kittens, how one day they just start doing some milestone thing and never go back to their before baby-like behavior. Kittens progress so rapidly in the first weeks of life, and some faster than others. If you notice teeth, you could even offer wet food and see if she’s interested. If not, put a little dab in the bottle and see if this helps. I agree with Rachel above, the nipple has a calming affect and kittens way past weaning may not need the milk as much as they do the comfort of suckling and cuddling that comes from the mother (you)!!

    #813068
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    In looking at my post, when I said put a little wet food in the bottle, I meant by mixing it with the milk. Just in case you thought I meant put only food in the bottle! Sorry!

    #813082
    Emily NP
    Participant

    Update:

    So she woke up around 10AM asking for food–strange since it was only 2 hrs since her last feeding, and she normally doesn’t break her 4-5hr schedule, but I figured, what the he**, the kitten gets what the kitten wants 😉

    I pulled out the bottle again, and she was reluctant, but I got her to latch. She sucked away for a minute or two, only to finally pull away with almost no change in the formula level. So, back to playing with the hole–got a bigger needle, but it didn’t make a difference to the hole that was already there, surprisingly. Went with the scissor method, and finally got the right size. It feels like Goldie Locks–not to big, not to small, just right!

    Long story short, she took to the bottle for this meal and purred like a little tractor at the end of it, sucking on her feet like a happy little goose.

    Thanks for the tips, everyone! As for weaning her onto wet, even adding a bit to her bottle, I think I will wait, at least over the weekend. I’d like her to be at least 3-3 1/2 weeks before I start that process.

    https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/10552490_10152333245884016_8870767288847162949_n.jpg

    #813104
    Rachelfosters
    Participant

    Congrats on a happy feeding! Kittens can be ‘resilient to a bottle, but the She will get the hang of it, but it will never be as good as the real thing. If she starts getting better with the bottle and feeding doesn’t become such a hassle, I would let her tell you when she is ready for weaning. If her teeth are in and she is biting the bottle more than not, it could be time. I have weaned one kitten a little early, and it was frustrating. She is now 5 weeks, and goes hysterical every time she sees a bottle even though she is completely Weaned.

    #813106
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    I have had problems with the nipples on the bottles myself. The pin method just doesn’t work for me. The criss cross doesn’t either, but it’s better than the pin. Kittens get soooo frustrated sucking and not getting enough milk to come out. I then cut the end off the nipple (not for tiny day old kittens) and they amazingly are much happier. Blows my mind how much milk a kitten can drink so fast!

    #813141
    Eric
    Participant

    If I could squeeze in a question, at 4 weeks is overfeeding still a potential hazard?

    My kitten sometimes gets hungry 2-4 hours after a feeding and I want to feed her but I dont want to do harm.

    #813144
    Rachelfosters
    Participant

    How often are you feeding her Eric?

    #813145
    Eric
    Participant

    Every 6 hours. She’s 4 weeks and 3 days to be exact.

    #813148
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    Eric, have you started her on solid food yet? She is more than old enough to try and have wet food. She may not be interested, but you really can’t over feed a kitten, they will stop when they are full and let you know when they are hungry.

    #813150
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    Emily, I just clicked on your picture link, OMG she’s adorable! Sweet little fuzzy black kitten…I see now why kitten gets everything she wants! LOL!

    #813151
    Eric
    Participant

    I’ve been feeding her crushed up kitten formulated canned food with kmr added to it.

    She’s been licking at it, which is a start because with just kmr she wouldn’t successfully lap, but she hasnt actually started to eat any noticeable amount as much as drink the KMR off of it.

    I think she’s making progress now, I was just worried because I read that if you feed them too often they’ll get potentially fatal diarrhea.

    #813152
    Emily NP
    Participant

    I know exactly what you mean Kittyzee! I’ll admit, part of the reason I kept her on a syringe was because of how much trouble the nipple for the bottle was giving me. She was getting frustrated, I was frustrated, and the syringe was working for us–so why fix what still works, right? But I get why she would have to make the switch now, and it’s working out well enough.:)

    #813153
    Rachelfosters
    Participant

    I would worry about over feeding her, she will let go of the bottle when she is full. If she starts to get diarrhea, let up a little bit With how often you Feed her. I do agree that she is old enough to start weaning. I would start other with putting some wet food on the nipple and luring her into the bowl with It. Mix the canned food with kmr to make a kitten soup. She will get messy, so make sure to clean her up afterwards.

    #813154
    Emily NP
    Participant

    Just saw your comment about the pic — Lol! She’s definitely hard to resist, haha

    #813155
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    Eric, I’ve never heard of a kitten getting diarrhea because of feeding too often. Disease, worms and one-celled parasites are the most common cause. At about 4 weeks, the vet should see her and show you how to worm her. Then again in a few more weeks, she will need the second dose. That’s when she can begin her vaccinations.

    #813156
    Eric
    Participant

    Alright. Thanks for the advice. I feel better about spoiling her now.

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