I am at my wits end.

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  • #840137
    Rachelle GARCIA
    Participant

    Over a year ago I agreed to foster 2 kittens that were found in the road. As far as we could tell they were about 6 weeks old, but as time went by we began to suspect that they were older. They are well over a year and still the same size they were at about 6-8 months. They eat a ton, I think they are just small cats. Time kept slipping by and we were never able to find them a home so we figured we needed to keep them.

    Over the last year they have hissed at us, scratched us, destroyed nearly all of our furniture and hate to be touched. I have tried EVERYTHING to alter these behaviours. We are first time cat owners and not even really cat people. I think they might be mostly feral because I have met countless strays that are nicer than them. On average we get to touch them 1-2 times a week.

    Is it possible they would be happier as outdoor cats? They meow at the windows and seem to long to go out, but I was trying to socialize them. Tonight the nicest one attempted to bite my face after hissing and scratching me (I was giving her treats). We love them and don’t want to get rid of them, but they have destroyed almost everything in our house and attack us. I think letting them go outside might be the kindest thing for all of us at this point…

    #840142
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Many TDKers have feral kits they have been able to integrate them into their lives. I have not experienced this so I’m bump it up. My only advice is “IF” you decide to let them out make sure they’re fixed. You don’t want more feral kits running loose.

    #840143
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    Hi Rachelle, welcome to TDK. Thank you for saving these cats and providing them with a home! You say you aren’t really cat people which makes me wonder what you mean by that, and it could be the root of your problem. Cats do not behave like dogs, but need toys to play with such as wand toys, toys they can carry and kick at, a laser toy (don’t shine it into their eyes) that they can chase to wear them out and give them something to do. They need cat trees or areas to be able to look outside and get up high. They need scratching posts that are tall enough for them to stretch out on and to scratch in a high traffic area as they scent mark with clawing and rubbing their faces on it. Some like the horizontal scratchers too which are fairly cheap made from cardboard. Another thing I was wondering is have they been neutered/spayed? If not, this could be a BIG reason for their behavior. Cats can be quite aggressive sometimes if they haven’t been neutered. And females will cry and meow when they come into heat incessantly. Also, try trimming their claws, which will help with the scratching.
    I would also feed them meals, meaning not leaving food out for them all day. That way, they learn that you are providing their nutrition and when it’s time for them to be fed, you can talk to them, pet them and set their food down and give them pats and talk gently to them, getting them used to you.
    Loud noises, yelling and screaming at cats gives a bad result (not saying you are doing this) and ends up making them fearful, jumpy and distrustful.
    http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=292
    Let us know how you are doing! Good luck!

    #840145
    Rachelle GARCIA
    Participant

    We have tried all of those solutions. If we try to pet them when they eat they won’t eat. I can touch one occasionally in the morning, and the other only occasionally when I am sitting (by occasionally I mean once every other week or so). They have toys, treats, a cat tree… everything. They will not let me trim their nails, that leads to a full blown attack and me bleeding. I was really hoping it would get better, but it’s stayed about the same and has even started getting worse. There are other cats in our apartment complex that are feral and they sit at the windows for hours meowing at them. The other night one of them even jumped down from the window and angrily peed on its own bed in front of us. I feel like maybe they weren’t meant to be indoors. They were fully weaned when we found them and ate dry food with no difficulty, which makes me think they were caught too late in life? I only started researching feral cats and I realize now that all their behaviour are that of feral cats that simply don’t trust humans.

    Also, by “not cat people” I meant people that never wanted cats, but are willing to try damn near anything to make them happy. That bit was more included so my cluelessness makes more sense. We haven’t yelled or been impatient. But the attack tonight was very bad and scary. She lunged at my face with fangs bared so I kinda had to deflect her and screamed (I was terrified). This dancing on eggshells has been going on for a year and this attack is by far the worst. It’s just exhausting monitoring them constantly, especially around our kids.

    I thought it would just take time, but now I’m losing hope. I will NOT take them to a shelter, so I’m really thinking outside is the next thing to try? I read multiple feral cat things and it says some simply WON’T become socialized and you need a backup plan?

    #840147
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    Wow, Rachelle, that is disappointing. 🙁 I hope someone else here at TDK will chime in on this one as I’m afraid other than patience (which you seem to have plenty of) I don’t have any solutions. You didn’t mention if they are neutered though, that being the only other cause I can think of. I would go to the Jackson Galaxy website and maybe you could find some help there. He has also mentioned in his experience when cats are acting strange and peeing to walk the perimeter of your place. If other cats are marking with pee it sends the inside cats into a frenzy and keeps them stirred up. Find a way to keep the outside cats out of your yard and clean up around your house where they are marking. YOU can’t smell it, but they certainly can. Cats are VERY TERRITORIAL and if they can see the cats and smell the cats, it may very well be what your problem is.

    #840169
    Rachelle GARCIA
    Participant

    They are neutered and we live on the second floor of an apartment building. The other cats don’t even come up the steps. Today they are acting angry and going everywhere together, which makes me very uncomfortable. I’ve been hosed at twice and I really don’t want them both to come at me, but I need to get around my house. It’s just so frustrating that they ar getting worse not better.

    Unfortunately, I have a 7 year old and a 9 year old and I cannot keep them inside if they keep acting aggressive.

    #840177
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    I am wondering (and I’m not trying to be mean or accusatory here) if they are picking up some vibes from you. You sound like you are afraid of them by what you said about them coming at you and needing to get around your house. I think you sound exasperated, frustrated, angry and afraid and these cats sound as if they are acting the same way. Although, I don’t know what would make a cat angry, like people get angry. It almost sounds like they are afraid. Are your kids respecting their boundaries? Again, I don’t mean to sound like I being judgemental here, I’m just trying (through the internet 🙄 ) to help you find the cause of your cats’ behavior. I would hate to see you put them out as outside cats have a hard time of it in the outdoors.

    #840180
    Robcy
    Participant

    Hi Rachelle. I don’t have nearly the experience that others on here have, but I agree with KittyZee that it sounds like your cats might be afraid.
    One of our indoor cats is very cautious. If he’s nervous about anything he give the impression of being hostile and if he feels trapped, he might even come across as aggressive. Our cat needs a place to hide until he calms down. His favorite place is under our bed. I saw this cat go crazy when someone new came into our home through the back door which did not give him good clear access to any of his favorite places to hide. This cat is completely tame and a big loving ball of fur. but when he is afraid he behaves very differently. Lots of things send this cat into hiding, new people, loud noises (thunder, dropping something on the floor, vacuum cleaner, etc).
    We also have some feral and semi-feral cats that we feed on our front porch. We also see a big change in their behavior depending on how we approach them, they always need a clear path to escape and somewhere to hide (the path to escape is a clear path to the steps, the place to hid is our shrubbery).
    Do your cats have a place they can run to when they are afraid ? They like close quarters (like under a bed) where they feel safe and where no one will bother them. They can come out when they are ready but not before.

    #840186
    jcat
    Participant

    Rachelle, I am just going out so will post a longer answer when I get back. In the meantime, get yourself a Feliway pheromone plug-in dispenser from any good pet store or from a good website like entirelypets.com or amazon. Plug it into the room where they spend the most time. It is NOT a drug, it diffuses a cat pheromone into the air that tells cats everything’s all right, be chill, you can relax, you’re safe here, this is a safe place. It doesn’t work on every cat, and it is pricey, but it has worked on all of mine. It de-stresses them and hopefully they will settle down beside it and go to sleep. I think both your cats were feral, were adopted after the ideal socialisation time, are being freaked out by the cats outside and the more they wind you up, the more frazzled you feel which winds them up some more. It is a vicious circle. First step is the Feliway. I will post again later.

    #840189
    jcat
    Participant

    Hi, again, Rachelle, I suspect you may be right and that when you picked up your kittens, they were several months old and beyond the stage when they could be easily socialised (but don’t give up hope). The Messy Beast website is the best on the Internet for information about cats and this is what it says about trying to tame ferals:
    http://messybeast.com/feralkit.htm

    Take it as your Bible, it has the best advice you will find.

    First of all, I really admire you for taking them on and sticking with them. I have worked with socialising adult feral cats and it is NOT easy. I admire you even more for sticking with them when you have children, whom of course you don’t want to get bitten. Most people would have given up by now. Your first port of call should be your vet, maybe you have tried this and they haven’t been much help, but I would hope that they would give you some good advice on whether they see your cats ever coming round and on possibly rehoming them to a farm or other safe place, like a good TNR colony, where they could be semi-wild but safe, as a ‘barn cat’. They may suggest a short course of kitty tranquilliser. If you get the feeling your vet doesn’t really care, look for another vet who is good with cats — ask around friends and family for recommendations.

    First though, a few hints. As I read somewhere just the other day, when a cat hisses at you, it is warning you that it is feeling uncomfortable and that whatever you are doing (trying to feed it, pet it, handle it, whatever), please stop or it will be forced to get a bit more aggressive. Hissing at you doesn’t mean they don’t like you, it doesn’t mean they hate you. It means, please stop that now because I am freaking out and if you don’t stop it, I will have to move on to clawing and biting and I really don’t want to do that. At the point where you get hissed at, don’t ignore it, just stop, retreat and give kitty some time-out space. Eye contact is a challenge to cats so don’t make eye contact, always look away from them or if you do catch their eye, blink slowly and exaggeratedly, then turn your head away and yawn exaggeratedly. Again, in cat language, this means ‘chill out’.

    I think you will have to start again from the beginning and I also think you need to separate the cats into different rooms during this process as they are reinforcing each other’s behaviour and do not need to bond with you as they are bonded to each other. A small enclosed space with a hidey hole they can retreat into (a covered cat bed?) would be the best idea — maybe you can borrow two collapsible cat/dog cages and have each in a different room. Put one in each cage, feed them, change their litter box, give them toys and a scratching post in their cage and a soft cat bed to hide in, speak gently to them (but don’t make eye contact, the sound of a low, gentle voice is your best way to get through to a feral) and let them hide from you when you go near the cage. Don’t try to handle or pet them, just ignore them as you go about your daily lives, but do speak to them lovingly a lot (again, without looking at them). Plug in a Feliway diffuser right by the cage. I am hoping that if you are going to be able to tame them, then you should be able to tell in a few weeks if this is going to work. No loud noises or abrupt movements and best to keep the kids away from the cages if you can (but again, maybe get the kids to sit down a little way from the cage and talk to them or read to them, without looking at them). Click the pink ‘Socializing’ tag, read through all the posts and threads — there’s some great advice — and follow the Messybeast page’s advice for feral kittens and cats.

    You will see that there are cases where Sarah of Messybeast thinks they may not be able to be tamed, because of genetics and conditioning, and in that case releasing them to a trap-neuter-release colony may be the best idea. I would talk to your vet about possibly doing so as a last resort, but I would NOT release them to the colony where you are. I think they would freak out and the other cats, who already see them as strangers and know their look and scent, might attack them. Do you have any friends living on big properties who have barns or garages where they could be released but still have a warm dry place to sleep and be given food. If you could find a way to make them ‘barn cats’, with kind owners, that might be the best suggestion. If they are neutered and have all their shots, a warm safe place to sleep, food available from a kind ‘barn owner’ when they need it and medical attention if anything happens to them, then this may be the best option for all of you. Such places are hard to find though — your vet may know of someone who could use a barn cat or a safe trap-neuter-return colony — so it may take some hunting down and patience on your part. Please don’t advertise them on Craig’s List or anything similar as ‘free to a good home’, as that’s where people looking to hurt cats often go.

    Hope this helps a bit. Best of luck and don’t hesitate to come back with more questions. You have chosen a hard road to hoe but it is worth persevering, at least for a few months longer. I have seen some miraculous results! And if in the end they do need to be rehomed to a colony, they are healthy, desexed and vaccinated — still miles better off than when you found them.

    #840192
    jcat
    Participant

    PS You can ask your vet to trim their claws for you.

    #841018
    Rachelle GARCIA
    Participant

    So I wanted to update, because the STRANGEST series of events have changed absolutely everything and I really don’t understand why.

    We are somehow the kind of family that just acquires animals. We have never bought any, they just keep appearing and we take them in. Somehow my husband’s cousin gave him an English Bulldog puppy. I was already a wreck trying to find a barn or somewhere where I could rehome these cats so they would finally be happy. I did not want to take in anymore animals until we had them sorted out, but agreed to let her stay for a bit and see how it went.

    The cats didn’t leave the room for days. I cried, tried feeding them treats, tried bribing them with canned food mixed with treats, catnip… at one point I tried carrying one out and was mauled. All of a sudden, they just came out. They still won’t interact with the puppy, but they don’t hiss at it or at us. They let us pet them and nap on top of things so we can pet them, they have stopped peeing everywhere, they even walk up to us to get stroked. Yesterday I had a cat on one side of me and the dog on the other and cried because I NEVER thought they would get to this point with me. It had been over a year and a half!!!

    I don’t know what happened, but the dog was DEFINITELY the catalyst and I really don’t understand how or why that changed them. I’m so happy and will absolutely be able to keep them now!!!

    Has anyone else ever experienced something like that with cats? It seems so odd that that would soothe them rather than stress them out even more…

    #841019
    Rachelle GARCIA
    Participant

    I cannot stress enough how much of a 180 this is for them. It’s like I have two new cats!!!

    #841021
    jcat
    Participant

    That’s truly wonderful. It’s amazing how the dynamics can change just with one more animal. I am so happy for you. I have not experienced anything quite like this but I have found, with trying to socialize feral cats, that one day you can be despairing and feel that months have gone by and nothing’s changed and then all of a sudden, something positive happens and then it all turns around so quickly you can’t believe it. I am so glad that this has happened for you.

    #841056
    Robcy
    Participant

    That’s wonderful news! So happy your kitties are coming around!
    I have no idea why (of course I have no idea why my 2 cats do half the stuff they do either 😉 ), but what matters is they have decided to trust you.

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