3 orphaned kittens & a little asian girl

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  • #812595
    waby
    Participant

    Hi, I’m not exactly little anymore, but I am taking care of three orphaned kittens that my friend found last week. Considering their physical progress, I’d say they’re about 3-4 weeks now. The tabby male is Captain, the white male w/ point-coloring is Alto, and his female twin is Arya. We haven’t taken them to a vet this past week but we will when Monday rolls around. We’ve read up on kitten care and have been using kitten formula, feeding them when they wake up and start meowing. After burping and petting them, they fall asleep and it’s a few hours until the next feeding.

    I have quite a lot of worries and questions about them since I’ve never taken care of cats before, much less kittens. My main concern is their waste, because until a few days ago, my friend and I were stimulating them over the sink, and now they can eliminate by themselves but they eliminate anywhere and seemingly at random times.

    I’m in a one-bedroom apartment with a kitchen and living area. I’ve put a litter tray (disposable baking pan) under a cabinet in the kitchen and, until yesterday, another litter try (shoebox lid) in the bathroom, now in the bedroom. The kittens themselves don’t sleep in a dedicated space, during the day they sleep on the couch where I make a nest out of blankets or towels. At night they sleep in a nest in the bathroom or a nest in my bedroom. Basically I make a nest anywhere and move them there to sleep.

    The problem is that they will always soil their nest. I’ve gotten steadily used to doing laundry every other hour, because when I wake up in the morning, they’ve soiled their nest, and when I check on them during the day, they’ve soiled that too. I was concerned on whether or not they pee in their sleep or pee awake, but then they just move to a different part of the blanket or towel and continue sleeping. I only see the stains in the morning. Sometimes they don’t notice when they’re peeing on the kitchen floor, and they remain sitting in it until I move them to the litter tray.

    Litter box training has not been very successful; I first showed Alto how to use the litter for pee and the next time he had to poo he climbed right in. But that was it, he’s peed on the kitchen floor and bedroom carpet more times than that. Just this morning, I coerced him to walk over to the litter in the bedroom and with his front paws in the litter, he started peeing on the carpet. His sister Arya did the same. For both of them, once I realized they were peeing, I scooped them up and put them in the litter tray.

    Arya’s also peed and pooed under the sink in the bathroom. Two nights ago when they were sleeping in the bedroom, she walked over to a corner and peed there. Since I’d never seen any of them walk over to the litter tray in the bathroom, I moved it to the corner in which she peed (after I cleaned up). And what happened is what I’ve described in the previous paragraph.

    Their brother Captain is also a big concern. He pees on whoever’s holding him while being burped in the kitchen. I can only reason that it’s because our chests are warm and we’re holding him, so he feels safe and lets go of all bowel control. When we realize, we move him to the litter tray to let him finish there. He also has a tendency to pee in small covered places, like under the kitchen cabinets. There’s been a lot of accidents in the kitchen, so I’m thinking maybe the placement of the litter tray is wrong. We use Feline Pine litter, where the pellets turn into sawdust when wet, and we scoop out the poop. I’ve heard kittens like something sandy or with a dirt-like consistency, and these pellets are equivalent to us walking on a rocky shore, so maybe the litter is also an issue.

    They also enjoy crawling all over me, sometimes meowing. At first it wasn’t so bad, but their claws seemingly grew five inches in three days and now I have scratches all over. I’ve been sleeping on the floor with them so when I wake up to their meowing, they’re pulling themselves on top of me. I’ve read I’m not supposed to let them play with my hands or else they’ll misunderstand when they grow up, but I’m not sure if crawling all over my body should be addressed the same way.

    I’m sorry for such a long post, but I’ve been googling to the high heavens every day for answers to my questions and they’re either not applicable or nonexistent. Instead of relying on secondhand information, I thought I’d try my hand at posting. Thank you very much for reading, any response is appreciated.

    TLDR; how do I stop kittens from soiling their nests every time they sleep and actually get up to use the litter trays? (I’ve heard you need one more litter tray for the total number of cats but some people have gotten by with one or two for multiple cats)

    #812598
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    Usually when raising kittens, when they wake up and after eating, they should be stimulated to pee and poop, they usually don’t do it on their own. This gets them used to a schedule of going. Now that they are about a month old, they can be introduced to the litter tray. What you are using is fine, but you need to get some litter boxes that the kittens can easily climb in and out of on their own. The cheap plastic ones are good. I think though that the pine litter may be your problem. It has a very strong smell and cats and kittens will sometimes avoid the litter if it has a strong smell. Little kittens need plain unscented clay litter (the non clumping kind), put some of their poops in there and I have even wiped up some pee off the floor with a paper towel and buried it under the litter so they can smell their pee. I think if you put them in their litter box when they wake up and after eating, they will get the hang of it and start using it. It may take some time since you have more than one, but stick to it they will learn. Once they are older, you can buy the clumping kind but it still should not be strongly scented.

    #812600
    Buttons
    Moderator

    Hey Waby welcome to TDK ๐Ÿ™‚

    Well it sounds like your furry babies are probably closer to the 3 week mark most kittens won’t regularly start to use the litter tray till 4-5 weeks and even then there will be accidents..

    Make sure where ever their nest is it’s on the ground at all times.. And you don’t need a litter tray for Each kitten just yet.. One shallow tray beside their sleeping area and try not too move the nest around if you see them moving simply put them back in their designated sleeping area..

    Sometimes when a kitten is on someone’s lap they might rub their bum of your clothing and it might stimulate them by mistake and sometimes the soft bedding can do the same thing..

    At this stage it’s all about patience you have at least another 2 weeks of bottle feeding them you have the weaning period .. By the one they start eating solids they should know to you the litter tray..

    Kittyzee is right the smell could be putting them off or even the texture so use a non-clumping litter to start with

    #812601
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    There is nothing wrong with letting the kittens crawl on you. They probably haven’t learned to retract their claws yet and when they slide off you they scratch. If you are very careful, you can trim their claws. Only the very tip of the claw, (the hooked part) needs to be trimmed off. This will keep them from scratching you. And usually only the front claws. Don’t trim back too far (where there is pink in the claw) because you will hurt the kitten and the claw will bleed. Trim all 4 toes and the thumb a little higher on the side of the foot. It’s sometimes easier if one person holds the cat/kitten and the other person trims.

    #812605
    waby
    Participant

    @Kittyzee
    The baking pan is only about 1 and 1/2 inches high, and the shoebox lid just an inch, so they don’t have trouble getting in or out. They like getting out more, though.
    I was indeed worried about the pine scent despite its reviews about being the best litter. I am probably being too lenient with them because even though I pick them up after they’re awake and put them in the litter, when they get off, I try once more and then give up. I’ve read lots of advice that say contradicting things, like restrain the kitten and stimulate it to go, or don’t restrain the kitten and let it jump in and out on its own. They always struggle when I try to stimulate them because they’re always on the move, so even the times I keep putting them back in the box, they crawl out in seconds.
    My friend and I are going to buy proper kitten nail clippers because we really don’t want to mess it up, but thank goodness the crawling’s not going to give them unwanted behaviors when they’re grown up.


    @Buttons

    Thank you! : )
    We got a scale to check their weight and they’re at the low end of the 3 week range but they can walk really quickly when they want to and their ears are fully erect so it’s confusing. Internet advice ranges from training them at 3 weeks to a month, so I was probably too hasty in getting on the ball.
    Ah, well then I’ll have to take them off the couch from now on. I’ll try to contain them to their sleeping area so they get used to dedicating it as their bed, it’s just that sometimes they’ll wake up and need to pee, but if I don’t move them to the litter tray then they will pee where they are. I don’t think they’re lazy (except the tabby) but there’s a lot of laundry evidence against that.
    I read up on the soft bedding as being stimulation, but they do it on the rough towels as well. Also, Captain likes to flip over on his back and have us play with his tummy after feeding so when that happens, he starts peeing.

    Regarding the weaning, Arya has been biting at the bottle since we got her, and the two boys started biting a couple days ago. The twins also like to grab at the bottle rather ferociously as they’re biting, and only calm down when they start suckling. For one feeding, I could not for the life of me get Arya to suckle, so she barely ate and had to be fed sooner the next time. During that feeding, I introduced her to eating off a spoon since she refused to suckle, and it worked relatively well. That was the only time I fed her with a spoon, however. The twins have also been introduced to a tiny saucer of water, and Alto took well to it, but Captain paid no attention whatsoever.

    #812608
    waby
    Participant

    Update: they woke up shortly after I posted and I took them into the kitchen. Captain was looking for a place to pee and just when he was starting, I scooped him up and put him in the litter tray. He stopped peeing and wanted to crawl out, so I grabbed the other two and moved ourselves away from his sight. He ended up staying and peeing in the litter tray!

    I also put Alto in the tray and moved Captain and Arya with me out of sight, and he pooped. I think the trend here is that it’s not private enough, so I will think of hiding it more or possibly putting a curtain in front of it.

    #812610
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    That was very perceptive of you waby! Some cats like privacy, some don’t care. But in starting kittens in the litter box, I’ve noticed especially with my current kitten, he preferred it. The other cats would peer in at him and it would distract him from getting the job done. As they get older, they will come to realize that the feeling to pee and poo needs to be done in the box. They will have accidents now and then, but they are never intentional. Kittens attention spans are very short, like little kids.

    I do agree with Buttons, you don’t need lots of boxes starting out, but later on you may want to increase them. I, like you, have used foil baking trays, shoeboxes, but given that I have hand reared so many kittens, it’s easier to get a few cheap litter boxes because they are invaluable for training kittens and much more sturdy. Especially with the clay litter, the pee soaks into the box, ugh!

    #812619
    Buttons
    Moderator

    That’s great news Waby :).. As kittyzee has said some kittens/cats can be very private.. I stems from a primal instinct every animals is at it’s most vulnerable when they are peeing and pooping ๐Ÿ™‚ sounds funny but it’s completely true..

    So cats in General will always want a bit of privacy .. Some don’t care … But when kittens are so young their natural instincts are very strong .. They will grow out of that when they don’t feel so defenceless..

    So people even attribute the toilet vulnerability to cases of holiday constipation ๐Ÿ˜† when your in a different country you tend not to use the bathroom as much.. It your bodies way of keeping you from being exposed in an unfamiliar place ๐Ÿ™‚

    #812721
    waby
    Participant

    @Kittyzee
    I’ve put the kitchen litter tray in a more secluded area and they will all go fine once I put them in. They still don’t crawl in themselves, though, but I’m getting a lot better at noticing when they’re about to go.
    My friend and I will go look at the litter boxes tomorrow! We’re also planning on taking all of them to the vet tomorrow, as we’re concerned with how often Arya is vomiting.


    @Buttons

    I have never considered the holiday constipation before but that makes a lot of sense. My apartment would be the third place the kittens have lived in since my friend found them, but it’s also been the longest apart from their initial living area.

    The good news is that they rarely have an accident anymore, mostly due to our constant vigilance. If there is one, it’s during the night when we are unable to monitor when they wake up and need to eliminate. At least Arya doesn’t soil the nest anymore, she knows to get out and do her business before crawling back in and going to sleep, but I still have to make sure she gets to the litter box in time. Is there a safe distance I should put the litter tray from the nest? Currently it’s a few feet away, but if I place it right next to the nest, won’t the smell bother them?

    #812726
    Buttons
    Moderator

    No the smell won’t bother them in fact it will make them feel a lot more comfortable to smell their own scent it allows them to feel more secure because the area is marked as their own with their scent so I would only place it 2 feet away..

    #812729
    Kittyzee
    Participant

    I had my kittens’ litter box right next to his nest, so he knew where everything was. His food was a few feet away where the other cats ate, but his nest and litter box were close so if he woke in the night all he had to do was climb in. Later on, when they are older, place the litter box away from the bed and food area because cats don’t want their food next to their potty. But in order for your kittens to feel secure, they need to know where everything is. Good on you for being vigilant and anticipating when they need to go. This is so important in having them learn what the box is for and when they have the feeling that they need to pee or poo, where they are to go to do their business!

    Try giving them some pasteurized goat’s milk. Kittens love it and it may help with the tummy upset and vomiting. It’s great that you are taking them to the vet, keep us posted please!

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